Smoke

[zulublue]

Got the 200tdi running to sounds ok, but blowing alot of grey smoke I have been told to look at the Turbo and the injectors any ideas peeps?

[Xtremeteam]

timing sounds out

[zulublue]

urrrm thats what I thought it was really bad then they retimed it and it got a little better, i need to take it to a professional I think

[extreme90]

try just advancing and retarding the timing on the pump see if that helps
you dont need to remove the front cover, theres a inspection plate infront o inj pump
remove that
then slacken the 3 M6 ( 10mm hex head) bolts, only slacken abit tho  :shock:
and then just tweak the timing with the big ( 21mm afink ) nut in the center
clockwise is advance
anti- is retard

afink you need to retard it abit  :?

dan

[Porny]

i'll have a look for u  

[zulublue]

Cheer all,

Ian Im going over the garage today to get them to have another go at it, you have my number if your passing by.

Mark

[Porny]

Cheer all,

Ian Im going over the garage today to get them to have another go at it, you have my number if your passing by.

Mark

Mark,

You should have a text....


Ian

[zulublue]

Cheers Ian, yes ive got it.

Well today was interesting, we changed the oil and filter the fuel (I think water was in it) and fuel filter and still the same, I took her for a run only about a mile or 2, when I returned to the garage the smoke had gone!!! :D

So it looks liks once up to temperature its ok I turned her off and left it 5 minutes started her up again and the smoke was back :(  so it seems when cold or warm it get smoke, when given a short run it's OK. :?

Does anyone think this could be the piston rings?

Mark.

[Porny]

It could be piston rings, or valve stem oil seals (or even a cracked piston - not that common on 200Tdi's)...

If the smokes still grey then unlikely to be the rings, as typically if an engine is burning oil the smoke is blue.


It could still be that the timings out... or knackered injectors (partialburn)... or a few other things (like a bent con rod).

Has the timing been done properly - with everything locked in place - and not just 'by eye' like a few places I know!!!
Which injector pump did you use in the end?? The one off the Defender 200 Tdi, or the one off the Disco engine??  Which injectors?


You could do a compression test (and if low repeat with a squirt of oil) to see if it's the rings - I have got a diesel compression tester if neded.
At least it would rule one thing out quite quickly.



Ian

[zulublue]

Hi Ian,

I forgot to mention the smoke looks more blue now than grey, the timing seems ok and starts on the flick, we put a pin through to the injector pump so it lined up, turned it twice and it still lined up, I used the injectors off the disco as the injectors were left in the block.

so a compression test will tell me if the rings or piston has gone?

[extreme90]

i'd go for steam seals 2BH,
leave it on a hill overnight then start it up and go straight down the hill, go down in 2nd on the overrun and see if its coughing its gut up with blue smoke

i really cant see it being rings or the engine generally worn out is it starts at the flick of a key
whats it starting like when upto op tempreture ??
if its ok starting then, then i would really rule out any serious mechanical problems

i have had one 200 how ever that emmitted a blue/grey hazey smoke that turned out to be the turbo dumping its oil not into the induction side but the exhaust side which when warm used to be like a train  :lol:

id say steam seals  :?

dan

[zulublue]

Thanks Dan,

Would that make sense with it getting better the hotter the engine gets.
once its up to temperature it starts ok also.

Where are the steam seals?

[Evilgoat]

i'd go for steam seals 2BH,
leave it on a hill overnight then start it up and go straight down the hill, go down in 2nd on the overrun and see if its coughing its gut up with blue smoke

i really cant see it being rings or the engine generally worn out is it starts at the flick of a key
whats it starting like when upto op tempreture ??
if its ok starting then, then i would really rule out any serious mechanical problems

i have had one 200 how ever that emmitted a blue/grey hazey smoke that turned out to be the turbo dumping its oil not into the induction side but the exhaust side which when warm used to be like a train  :lol:

id say steam seals  :?

dan

Seen a turbo do this, in fact it was the Garett T34 on the Audi, was leaving a spectacular vapour trail and as these things you go, wasnt on our list of suspects.. In the case of mine dropped the downpipe and it was obvious, not sure how you'd tell on a deisel as it'll be covered in black gunk anyhoo. I was having oil pressure issues at the same time from the same problem. Aparently once it goes it leaves an ash deposit on the shaft that speeds up the death. Aparently the same can happen on water cooled turbos with the coolant, not sure of the 200TDI or indeed any landy turbo gets hot enough to use water cooling.

[extreme90]

to see if its the turbo, take the inlet pipe off and see how much play there is in the turbine shaft, there should be a little, not a huge amount, if its hitting the snail housing then its goosed
take the outlet pipe of also and see if its dumping oil into the induction side
drop the exhaust down pipe off aswel to see if its dumping oil into the zaust

but if theres only a little play on the shaft then i wouldnt bother with the latter of the checks as they will draw blanks

the valve steam seals are in the cyl head and it requires dismantling to change them

parts that will be required will be a new head gasket, inlet/exhaust man gasket, rocker gasket, steam seals and i also like to replace the collets at the same time ( just personal preference tho)
all in all afink the last one i did came to 50 quid's worth of bits, but i cant be sure,

and is no more than a days work

dan

[zulublue]

Thanks again Dan,  I will test that tomorrow.

[extreme90]

ok, my check to see if its steam seals is as i sedcribed above after start up from cold when the vacume is great, go down a hill on overrun, it should blech blue smoke out as its physicaly getting sucked into the cylinders through the seals
dan

[Range Rover Blues]

I've not changed the collets but I swapped the head bolts on mine, £31 for a set that fitted (*£23.50 for a set that didn't, good old flea bay).

[Xtremeteam]

valve stem seals dan  :lol:  :lol:

[zulublue]

The fog has lifted.

Had her retimed today and she is running loads better, a bit of smoke on start up but now clears to a fine smoke for about 30 seconds, then goes away, Ill see what happens over night to see if she is totally cured.

Thanks to everyone for your input, it is very much appreciated :D

I have many mods to do, so many posts to come, first mod will be roll cage and snorkel, I think the southdown snorkel looks the best as I am not wanting to go throught the side of the wing after the last problem.

[extreme90]

i brought a el cheapo paddocks snorkel and instead of using the side intake ive gone direct to the turbo and chucked the air box into the bin and put a cheapo filter onto of the snorkel

ill be damned if im gonna pay nearly 200 quid just for abit of stainless pipe and a piece of moulded plastic  :shock:

dan

[zulublue]

put a cheapo filter onto of the snorkel dan

How did you fit the filter Dan, as I have still got the old snorkel.

[extreme90]

straight ontop of the snorkel tube
have a look in me gallery matey  

[zulublue]

Update on this, the smoke is almost gone, on start up a big blow of black smoke (normal)? then reduces to a fine plume afterwards and stays there and I cannot seem to shift it, do you think this engine just needs a good run, as it had sat in a barn for a year, (all oils have been changed, and injector clearner added) or as others have said the turbo may need looking at from when she locked up in the ford?

[extreme90]

if its chugging black smoke out then its running rich
i.e theres too much fuel going in vs air
which could be down to the turbo being drownd
but i wouldnt go worrying yet if its just abit of black , see if it settles down
if the turbo isnt whining and your getting a nice kick from it as it comes up onto boost dont worry  :)
id run it around for a few weeks and then montior the smoke when its settled down after being stud

dan