Legal Lighting Question

[Bush Tucker Man]

I was browsing the 'Commercial Vehicle' sections of E-Bay, I don't know why I just was.

In the listings, a company was offering amber LED strobe light units for grille/rear mounting.

The thought crossed my mind that a set of these mounted front & rear (high-up) would be ideal when stopped to offer assistance to other motorists, especially given that we're supposed to be getting a harsh winter.

I guess that the amber units are 100% legal & above board.


But;
1. Would pairing them with red units to the rear (or using red in place of amber) be okay?

2. Does the rate/type of operation affect the legality??
Ie; if they flash in an alternating manner (like Traffic Unit Volvos, etc.....) Is it still legal?, or does it constitute an offence (due to possible confusion with a '999' vehicle)


E-Bay items

Emergency Equipment Shop

[karlo]

I recall seeing a new AA vehicle with both amber & red flashing strobes in its light bar?

[Bush Tucker Man]

I recall seeing a new AA vehicle with both amber & red flashing strobes in its light bar?

I know, but I'd guess they have an Exemption (if one is required?) as a recovery operator

[SWEETY]

I would think they would be ok as they are doing the same jobas a  amber flashing light that a lot of people have :D A hard winter did you say :? I've been thinking that since july but has anyone in the so called know said so yet as i've not heard of anything yet apart from it's snowed in a part of scottland already :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

[Wolfie]

Can't see any mention at all of red warning lights in RVLR so guess that they must be covered in one of the amendments.

[Bush Tucker Man]

A hard winter did you say :? I've been thinking that since july but has anyone in the so called know said so yet as i've not heard of anything yet apart from it's snowed in a part of scottland already :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

The Rockies are already inches deep!!
I was browsing another regular haunt, the 'LandRoversonly.com' forum, & it appears that they already have a white coating!

Those lucky Yanks!!!!


Click on pic to open album

[dreadnought110]

I have flashing LED/Strobes mounted at the top front and back and stopped to help the Police on a breakdown in the outside lane of a dual carriage way and they never told me off for them and as long as your not creating a nuisance and use them properly whats the problem?? 8)

[Terranosaurus]

All strobes are illegal (and so are most amber beacons come to that unless you have a valid reason for them). Its down to them not having equal on and off periods and flashing too fast. Will find the relevant info later.

[Evilgoat]

sptb Erm I'd go check that However red is out anyway.

EU harmonises the colours. Yellow stays as a general Hazzard warning BUT:

Blue = Police, General EMS
Green = Medical (Paramed, Dr, Ambulance, Transfusion Service ETC)
Red = Fire Service, Fire Officer etc.

I dont actually know what would happen. Use blue and you are toast and someone was done very recently (last month) for using Green so they are enforced.

I'm curious about the regs as they apply though as I'll be fiting the dip/dim style flashers at some point for head/brake lights. Well when I make a set.

[Bush Tucker Man]

sptb Erm I'd go check that However red is out anyway.

EU harmonises the colours. Yellow stays as a general Hazzard warning BUT:

Blue = Police, General EMS
Green = Medical (Paramed, Dr, Ambulance, Transfusion Service ETC)
Red = Fire Service, Fire Officer etc.

But surely over here, the Fire Service use blue, not red

Plus they'd only be rear mounted, not forward facing

I dont actually know what would happen. Use blue and you are toast and someone was done very recently (last month) for using Green so they are enforced.

A couple of Consultants have green LED strobes (at least I think they're green & not blue) on their vehicles, but they are on-call to RTIs

One even (I believe) uses her car as a medical vehicle at Motorcycle races, plus she's an ex-Chief Executive of WYMAS

[cardiff_gareth]

The Rockies are already inches deep!!
I was browsing another regular haunt, the 'LandRoversonly.com' forum, & it appears that they already have a white coating!

Those lucky Yanks!!!!


Click on pic to open album

Cool shots, good to see a D3 and Range Rover Vogue being used off road 8)

Whats scarey is that the ebay link you gave shows the guy mounting them behind the grill on a car......in blue - police style  :shock:

[Evilgoat]

I dont actually know what would happen. Use blue and you are toast and someone was done very recently (last month) for using Green so they are enforced.

A couple of Consultants have green LED strobes (at least I think they're green & not blue) on their vehicles, but they are on-call to RTIs

One even (I believe) uses her car as a medical vehicle at Motorcycle races, plus she's an ex-Cheief Executive of WYMAS[/quote]

Best I can suggest is ask LSP or Boggert. The guy that was done for using the greens was using them to dodge traffic fines, he got absolutely screwed for it, big time. I think if you are actually a Dr/Paramed you can get away with it.

[Bush Tucker Man]

One even (I believe) uses her car as a medical vehicle at Motorcycle races, plus she's an ex-Cheief Executive of WYMAS

Best I can suggest is ask LSP or Boggert.
The guy that was done for using the greens was using them to dodge traffic fines, he got absolutely screwed for it, big time. I think if you are actually a Dr/Paramed you can get away with it.

Obviously, if you're only using them when en-route to attending a scene/'on-scene'/or en-route to a medical facilty.
But only with 'Good Cause'

I'll tap-up my Road-Traffic contacts when I go back to work next Wednesday & ask them, for a second (local) opinion, after speaking with 'LS-P', or 'Boggert'

[Evilgoat]

Prod them about flashy headlights and tail lights if you dont mind. Its something on my to-do list and I dont reaslly want to have to work out how to get a trolley cot in a Disco to justify them ;)

[Wolfie]

Prod them about flashy headlights and tail lights if you dont mind. Its something on my to-do list and I dont reaslly want to have to work out how to get a trolley cot in a Disco to justify them ;)

RVLR covers this:

Lamps to show a steady light
    13.—(1)  Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
    (2)  Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-

(a)  a direction indicator;
(b)  a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
(c)  a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d)  a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e)  a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f)  lamps forming part of a traffic sign.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Prod them about flashy headlights and tail lights if you dont mind. Its something on my to-do list and I dont reaslly want to have to work out how to get a trolley cot in a Disco to justify them ;)

RVLR covers this:

Lamps to show a steady light
    13.—(1)  Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
    (2)  Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-

(a)  a direction indicator;
(b)  a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
(c)  a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d)  a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e)  a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f)  lamps forming part of a traffic sign.

 That about sums it up really. It evens covers the Police for the supposed perception by the Public of usage of Blues and Twos/Wee Waa's (technical terminology) for 'getting back for a meal break'. Big no-no.
What is this fascination with flashing lights? :? From personal experience, the strobes on EMS vehicles are a pain, literally sometimes, when it is raining, foggy or snowing due to glare back. Gives me a raging headache. Headlight flashing and grill lights are far better, IMHO.

[Evilgoat]

[What is this fascination with flashing lights? :? From personal experience, the strobes on EMS vehicles are a pain, literally sometimes, when it is raining, foggy or snowing due to glare back. Gives me a raging headache. Headlight flashing and grill lights are far better, IMHO.

I'm only thinking grille lamps tbh. Quite often find myself stopped somewhere where I'd like the whole planet to see me there (in the hope that the numpties on our roads may have a figting chance of not splattering themselves against my rear x-member) but I do hate light bars on anything.

A few years back I found a wrecked, upturned car covered in blood in the middle of the new forest at 12am. Stopped, parked to effectively alert anyone comming checked for people and called the police. As you can guess they turned up in force along with a battle-bus (Ambulance) and the resultant strobes in pitch back messed up my sight to the point I had to ask them to turn them off to drive away. Grille lights are too low to be a problem. I also know what you mean about them refecting off things, oddly enough the old 'whirly' lights never caused me an issue. I'm sure I have to old bucket sized units somewhere off of a control unit :)

[Terranosaurus]

Quite often find myself stopped somewhere where I'd like the whole planet to see me there (in the hope that the numpties on our roads may have a figting chance of not splattering themselves against my rear x-member)

There does seem a rather obvious answer to that.

Unless you drive an exempted vehicle it is illegal to have them fitted never mind to use them, even non red reflectors are illegal, why draw more of the wrong sort of attention to your self.

Grill lights alone fall foul of the fact that the light or combination of lights must be visible from 360 degrees around the vehicle. Its all in THIS LINK

[Evilgoat]

There does seem a rather obvious answer to that.

Yes, if I use the example of the last time I had to do it I could have left the driver of the car to die on the hard shoulder.

Please dont assume I'm stupid

[Bush Tucker Man]

Blimey!!!!!



Can
Worms
Opened :lol:

[DEANO3528]

I have an ex-AA Vision Alert Evo' 4-rotator with aux rear lamps and alley lights up top, along with Ardent strobes in the grille and tomorrow will be fitting an identical set into the rear bumper. As I am a Search & Rescue Team transporter and my remit includes the protection of that team on roadside searches, that's why I have them.
I think it all comes down to reasonable cause if sensibility prevails.

But when did that ever stop the boys in blue...

[Sider]

In Spain, emergency ambulances use Amber beacons.

Just stirring the wide open can :D:D:D

[Terranosaurus]

As I am a Search & Rescue Team transporter and my remit includes the protection of that team on roadside searches, that's why I have them.

I'm Humber-Yorks 4x4 Response and we have been specifically told by the liason officer from Humberside Police that flashing lights of any sort are illegal for use in these instances. Even when w have police officers on board or with us and are (as I did earlier this year) acting as a road block to close a flooded road etc

At the end of the day it's down to the individual vehicle owner but its like Green Laning and straying from the track, what some people do unfortunately reflects on everyone else.

[Welshbreed]

These are the rules of strobe lights in the UK as I currently undestand them.

IF you are responding to a medical emergency (IE not just on call) Green is to be used. only green may be used, unless your in an ambulance, inwhich blue is the colour of choice
IF you are Police and or associated with, and you are responding to a call Blue may be used. Only blue
If you are responding to a fire, only blue may be used, unless on private land, and on use of private vehicles; ie airports etc, in which case red may be used, but it is unofficial.

Green (Medical emergency, official first aider's and doctor's may use these)
Blue (police, mountain rescue, 999 calls, etc)
Yellow (General Warning)
Red (No designation, as may be confused with yellow)

There is no official designated red light, as it can clash with amber, if a bad earth or low wattage bulb is installed, or if viewed by someone who may be partially colour blind.

Thats how I figure it anyway

[cardiff_gareth]

Welshbreed
where in cardiff are you located then ?
I saw the signature: The only off-roader in Cardiff - apparently

[Terranosaurus]

Its all in the previous link - Green is for Doctors only not first aiders etc.

(2)  No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except-

      (a)  amber light from a direction indicator or side marker lamp;


      (b)  white light from a reversing lamp;


      (c)  white light from a work lamp;


      (d)  light to illuminate the interior of a vehicle;


      (e)  light from an illuminated rear registration plate;


      (f)  light for the purposes of illuminating a taxi meter;


      (g)  in the case of a bus, light for the purposes of illuminating a route indicator;


      (h)  blue light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to a police control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;


      (i)  white light from a red and white chequered domed lamp, or a red and white segmented mast-mounted warning beacon, fitted to a fire service control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;


      (j)  green light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to an ambulance control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;


      (k)  blue light from a warning beacon or rear special warning lamp fitted to an emergency vehicle, or from any device fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;


      (l)  amber light from a warning beacon fitted to-

            (i)  a road clearance vehicle;
            (ii)  a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse;
            (iii)  a breakdown vehicle;
            (iv)  a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle;
            (v)  a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m;
            (vi)  a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use;
            (vii)  a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use;
            (viii)  a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act;
            (ix)  a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph;
            (x)  a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels;
            (xi)  a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying;
            (xii)  a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty;


      (m)  green light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle used by a medical practitioner registered by the General Medical Council (whether with full, provisional or limited registration);


      (n)  yellow light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle for use at airports;


      (o)  light of any colour from a traffic sign which is attached to a vehicle;


      (p)  reflected light from amber pedal retro reflectors;


      (q)  reflected light of any colour from retro reflective material or a retro reflector designed primarily to reflect light to one or both sides of the vehicle and attached to or incorporated in any wheel or tyre of-

            (i)  a pedal cycle and any sidecar attached to it;
            (ii)  a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination; or
            (iii)  an invalid carriage;


      (r)  reflected light from amber retro reflective material on a road clearance vehicle;


      (s)  reflected light from yellow retro reflective registration plates;


      (t)  reflected light from yellow retro reflective material incorporated in a rear marking of a type specified in Part I Section B of Schedule 19 and fitted to-

            (i)  a motor vehicle having a maximum gross weight exceeding 7500 kg;
            (ii)  a motor vehicle first used before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 3000 kg;
            (iii)  a trailer having a maximum gross weight exceeding 3500 kg;
            (iv)  a trailer manufactured before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 1000 kg;
            (v)  a trailer which forms part of a combination of vehicles one of which is of a type mentioned in a previous item of this sub-paragraph;
            (vi)  a load carried by any vehicle; or


      (u)  reflected light from orange retro reflective material incorporated in a sign fitted to the rear of a vehicle carrying a dangerous substance within the meaning of the Dangerous Substances (Conveyance by Road in Road Tankers and Tank Containers) Regulations 1981[16] or the Road Traffic (Carriage of Dangerous Substances in Packages etc) Regulations 1986[17]

[Welshbreed]

you have been PM'ed

[Elmo]

So, strictly, rotating amber beacons are illegal? Am I reading that right?

Just wondering before I fit a couple to the 110.....a reasonably hard winter here in Shropshire down our lane usually involves much pulling of cars from holes in hedges, and amber beacons can be seen OVER hedges, unlike hazards.

[Evilgoat]

So, strictly, rotating amber beacons are illegal? Am I reading that right?

Just wondering before I fit a couple to the 110.....a reasonably hard winter here in Shropshire down our lane usually involves much pulling of cars from holes in hedges, and amber beacons can be seen OVER hedges, unlike hazards.

Common sense means you'll be OK. I would take You are a slow moving hazard operating in limited visibility/trechorous conditions. Without the beacons you stand a high chance of becomming road Pizza while assisting other. Lets face it, LR hazzard lamps arent all that great.

You can follow sptb's lead and just drive on by, or you can excercise some discression (and I know your local police will) and keep yourself and others safe.

[Terranosaurus]

You can follow sptb's lead and just drive on by, or you can excercise some discression (and I know your local police will) and keep yourself and others safe.

Or you could carry a couple of red warning triangles and deploy them up the road either side as I do and would. You'll probably be ok using a beacon in that situation its driving around with in mounted (not in use, just mounted) that starts to be an issue. Probably not a problem to some fussy copper stops you for something else and then starts looking for "issues" with your truck. I once had my tax disc inspected 3 times during one "pull over", in case it had gone out of date since the first time they looked at it 3 minutes before I assume.