What am I doing wrong?

[Range Rover Blues]

Both 300TDis in thew family bust their head gaskets last summer, within a few weeks of each other too.  First Julies went, I had the head skimmed and used new bolts, it ran great 'till I started having probllems with bioderv, by January I was getting the ticking noise and clouds of sooty smokey gas from the back of the engine, especially at startup.
That could be the exhaust manifold galskets as the exhaust took a batrering when the car got hit.  It's still in the bodyshop whilst they try to get parts, when it ocmes back I have to look into it.

But I thought well maybe I shouldn't have skimmed the head as LR say you can't skim them, maybe I should have fitted a new one.

Tonight however my sister's turned up, I did the head on that the week after finishing Julie's, I put a new head on because one glow plug and one injector were stuck in, plus I wanted it bomb-proof reliable. Put new injectors, glow plugs, water pump and thermostat on it.

Not so, the head gasket has gone already, the car does few miles, it's auto and not thrashed, it had good qualilty antifreeze in it and generally it's looked after and leads an easy life.

So what have I missed? what can cause the gasket on a brand new head to fail? I used new bolts and followed the RAVE manual carefully.  The engine is very mildly tuned.

[chris9119]

RRB

A couple of questions whilst the old cogs get going....

1. Was it over heating prior to replacing the head
2. Did you use after market gaskets or LR?
3. Was the correct sized head gasket used?
4. Was the head bolts reset after "running in"? (not sure if required on 300tdi, so I've asked anyway. You have the RAVE manual)
5. Did you check the block for being true?

[Range Rover Blues]

1. Was it over heating prior to replacing the head
2. Did you use after market gaskets or LR?
3. Was the correct sized head gasket used?
4. Was the head bolts reset after "running in"? (not sure if required on 300tdi, so I've asked anyway. You have the RAVE manual)
5. Did you check the block for being true?

1)Neither of them were originally, julies was perhaps caused by the rad going pop on the motorwy, by the time I could get off, damage done.  Jane's I don't know as I don't drive it.  this time it just overheated on the way home, it had started to blow water out I reckon the other day.  That's the one with a new head.
2) aftermarket I think, I've seen something about the new LR gasket being laminated? are they more reliable?
3)yes they both had 3 hole gaskets and that's what I replaced, i didn't check the piston projection at the time.
4)I didn't retorque after running in, I don't think I was meant to :-k obviously if i was then that's the culprit.
5)No, I wasn't aware this would be a problem and as both engines had been fine up to the first instance of head gasket failure I assumed it was just due to their age/milage.

Thanks for the input Chris, I'm going to have to sort Jane's out soon so I'll be chucking more cash at it I think, Julie's will have to wait 'till it's resprayed.

[dave_2A_2.25Turbo]

Mine (200tdi) went at 140k - after I'd put 15k on in under 6 months, driven fairly hard.  It was chuffing out of the back against the bulkhead.  As it hadn't got hot, I just replaced the gasket.  2 months later it went again.  Changed it again - exactly the same 'care and attention' - and it's been fine for 20k.  Dodgy gaskets do happen - a (very good) mechanic mate of mine had the same thing on a Frontera a year or two ago.  Both mine were Paddock ones.

[mike142sl]

There's a guy called Range Rover Blues on here who knows everything about Land Rovers, I'm sure he'll be able to help. He's forgotten more about them than most of us know.

Oh Hang on, that's you 

Oh Dear  8-[

[bilge rat]

seems unlucky to have this much bad luck with one fault,  the blocks should never give a problem with the head being alloy its that that takes all the stick , the rover head gasket is one of those multi plate type. i was told to stay clear as they tend to leak oil , (unusual for a landy) was advised to fit an ering one which was the old fitment. apart from that a good aftermarket would be just a s good . payne e.t.c. only thing i can ask which i know you will have checked is the torque settings , are you using the correct message and torque which im sure you are and the other thing is do you make sure the holes in the block are clear from oil and water before you fit the head and bolts.  iff theres any left in the bolts can sort of hydrolic when you torque them down which can screw things up a lot. is the p gasket o.k . apart from that cant think of anything else. iff theres anything ive missed or your unsure of give us a shout . alan.....

[Sharpshooter]

Correct me if im wrong, but dont you have to measure the clearance on the pistons from the top of the block, and then use the correct head gasket accordingly. I remember seeing something about it.

I.E if you skim the head, you use a thicker gasket with more holes in it.

I will try to find the text.

[davidlandy]

do you need to use new head bolts?

[Range Rover Blues]

Both engines had new bolts yes, I don't recall which brand of gasket but they both looked the same, similar to the composite V8 gasket I'm more familiar with.

I cleaned the threads in the block before fitting the new heads too.

If it were one engine I'd just try again but it's both of them, perhaps the coincidence is that they both went at the same time, but then how many dodgy gaskets hit the market place?

[chris9119]

but then how many dodgy gaskets hit the market place?

Ummmmm, hard one that, there's Chinese imitation, there's Taiwanese imitation, there's Russian imitation.......

How many recalls are there from the motor manufacturers?

Looking at all the posts regarding this, it looks more likely that it's all coincidental...., as they say, if at first, try, try and try again....., or get a Jap......

[Range Rover Blues]

So there is a good chance I was just unlucky with the gasket i bought then?  The one on Janes came from paddocks I think, that's where I bought the head from.

So where should I buy a new gasket from then, what specifically should I ask for?

[bilge rat]

go for an elring type gasket, theres a place by me does them , dont know iff they do mail order but worth a try . real good bunch .  a.m.d 4x4 at merrylees near desford .coalville area. iff you need the no . shout . alan.....

[chris9119]

Contact details are: -

Elring Parts Ltd.
Unit 5 Derwent Court Earlsway - Team Valley Trading Estate
Tyne and Wear NE110TF Gateshead
Great Britain

Contact: Mr. Kevin Brown

Tel: +44 191 491 5678
Fax: +44 191 487 5001

E-mail: kevin@elringparts.co.uk

[Range Rover Blues]

Found one on E-Bay for sensible money but it looks just like the one I fitted :-k

Was was diferent on the non-genuine ones, does anyone know?

[Sharpshooter]

Yes i was right. I am looking in my Haynes Manual now. 200 and 300 Tdi. It quotes.

When the piston is at TDC they protrude above the top face of the cylinder block. The amount of protrusion determines the thickness of the cylinder head gasket required. The protrusion of all of the cylinders must be measured, and the thickness of the gasket to be used is determined by the largest protrusion measured.You can measure this using a Dial Test Indicator (DTI) to get TDC, then measure using a straight edge and feeler gauges. Measurements are as follows.

0.5000 to 0.6000 mm 1 hole gasket
0.6100 to 0.7000 mm 2 hole gasket
0.7100 to 0.8000 mm 3 hole gasket.

I hope this helps.

[chris9119]

Found one on E-Bay for sensible money but it looks just like the one I fitted :-k

They may well look alike....

quote author=Range Rover Blues link=topic=58039.msg513459#msg513459 date=1206733940] Was was diferent on the non-genuine ones, does anyone know? [/quote]

The quality of the materials and the quality of the manufacturing process

[Range Rover Blues]

So the paddocks one was probably a bad copy.  Ok that's put my mind at rest.  If it stop raining whenever I'm not busy then I plan to whip the head back off and check it for flatness.  It'll be annoying if I have to skim a brand new head but I'm not buying another unless it's flawed somehow (mental note to buy some dye penn) and try it again with a quality gasket.

Then it's keep finger's crossed, for a long time.

[davidlandy]

take some pics if u can RRB and make a 'how to' topic on 300tdi head gasket change.

would be a very useful topic

[Range Rover Blues]

I'll try to remember if the weather is nice.