Hand Winch

[akabigm]

Obviously not intending to need to use it :roll:, but have decided against electric winch, so looked at hand winches, seems to be big variety of price ranges £20 to £250, anyone with experience able to clarify what type is best what do you get for the bigger £££, what is needed i.e. length of rope etc, they all say rated at 4 tonnes so not that.

[william127]

the best type of hand winchs are tirfor winches, we had 2 that we brought off a retiring builder(i think) for £25, they would probably have been about £400 new :D. iv got one of the really cheap ones,£12 from a market stall, its about strong enough to pull my quad or small bushes out the ground.
have you got a highlift as there an ideal compromise, we pulled my rangerover up a 45degree slope side on using 2 highlifts with large ratchet straps for backup when re riging. thats the downside of the highlifts for winching, the short (sub 5 foot) pull.

hope that helps?

[thermidorthelobster]

I'll go with that.  If you can find a second-hand Tirfor at a bargain price you'll be laughing.  I got mine for 30 quid with 2 cables.

[Saffy]

Make sure it's a tirfor not a cheap copy. Important note for 2nd hand tifor market is that many are sold without cable, you can not just use any steal cable with a TIRFOR, it MUST be the proper stuff. Nothing wrong with extending the proper cable with normal cable though.

[akabigm]

Thanks useful advice, I'll keep a look out, cheap but good, what else ! :roll:

[Disco Matt]

Those cheap "Power Puller" type winches have one major problem, they can only pull for about a metre and a half before you run out of cable. The one we have here is marked as "3m cable" but as it's permanently rigged with a snatch block on the hook that length is obviously halved.

They might just work for a short distance, but to be honest I'd buy a hilift instead. Weighs about the same and can be used for other purposes too.

[Saffy]

Those cheap "Power Puller" type winches have one major problem, they can only pull for about a metre and a half before you run out of cable. The one we have here is marked as "3m cable" but as it's permanently rigged with a snatch block on the hook that length is obviously halved.

They might just work for a short distance, but to be honest I'd buy a hilift instead. Weighs about the same and can be used for other purposes too.

whoooooa I missed understood if that was the OP intention. I'd never recommend a 'power puller' for recovery ESPECIALLY a cheap POS eBay special - no way, puttin aside their restricted length of pull, they near impossible to release after load and they can also be released under load by accident. Tirfor griphoist totally different beast entirely which could pull a load a mile if you had a cable long enough and energy of a mutant mule from Mars.  Their stated rating is for dead weight lift which is increased many times for pulling. They are used in industry, demolishion crews, rescue services, recovery. Mines a ex ministry of defence Tirfor with a  3.5 SWL LIFTING rating, it's huge with a 15mm dia cable.  Tirfor didn't maintain their patient so in recent years there have been many cheap copies made of various quality, some on par, some not.

[Disco Matt]

Well, I assumed that to be the case based on the £20 bottom end of price range. They are not well made and the method of changing direction is a bit unorthodox - call me weird but I'm not putting my fingers anywhere near those teeth to push the spring across and change the ratchet to "pay out" mode!

[william127]

yeah ive got one of the sub £20 ones for the quad bike/small bush removal and i change the direction using a pair of fencing pliers and a claw hammer to change direction :D

incidentaly i had to pull the 110 out of a ditch using the highlift tonight, tryed towing it with a 90, didnt move an  inch, highlift made it look like it was a broken down mini we were recvering, not a badly bogged landy :) using the 90 as a winch point overcomes the rigging problem as well- just move the truck.

highlifts are also really versitile. a couple of weeks ago i spent some time trying to dig out a broken concrete post, got a chnel dug round it, wrapped it up in a strop and pulled it straight out with the jack. and a couple of years ago i used it to pop a conifer stump out the ground that a 1/12 ton mini digger couldnt even lift never mind get out the grond.
so bottom line- get a high lift  :)


ps- aparantly you can evn use them when changing a wheel, surley a myth?

[Disco Matt]

The other trick for the hilift re-rigging is to get a shortening chain. They seem quite tricky to find, I got one on ebay recently after about three years of searching. It's a length of chain with hooks that clip back onto the chain, enabling you to make pretty much any length you need. They are heavy though - mine is currently stored in a small old ammunition box as a demonstration of density, it weighs a lot more than a box that size has any right to!

Edit, having re-read previous post:

You don't want to use a hilift to change a wheel, as they are very unstable and should never be left unattended with a load on them. Even when attended the handle needs to be upright when the load is not being moved, as if the handle is left down with the jack set to lower it can go out of control, flailing up and down with enough force to fracture anything in its way. I have seen a demonstration of this and it is downright scary. So when, a few months later, I saw a TV wildlife documentary crew changing a diff with the back of the vehicle only supported by two hilifts with the handles down I was not amused!

They might be ok if you have a mate to hold the jack steady while you change the wheel, but I use my standard LR bottle jack for that as it's a much more stable platform.

[william127]

indeed, ive only lifted the landy with it once, just to check that it worked, its much more of a puller than a lifter to me

[J.D.]

The other trick for the hilift re-rigging is to get a shortening chain. They seem quite tricky to find, I got one on ebay recently after about three years of searching. It's a length of chain with hooks that clip back onto the chain, enabling you to make pretty much any length you need. They are heavy though - mine is currently stored in a small old ammunition box as a demonstration of density, it weighs a lot more than a box that size has any right to!

Or one of the 5 tonne ratchet straps. I double them up to make them 10 tonne SWL, and then use the ratchet to take up the slack.

NOTE: Not all of the ratchet straps available come with a label with the SWL on them, if you are going to use one for this purpose make sure A) it is new and B) it is rated.

[Saffy]

Or one of the 5 tonne ratchet straps. I double them up to make them 10 tonne SWL, and then use the ratchet to take up the slack.

NOTE: Not all of the ratchet straps available come with a label with the SWL on them, if you are going to use one for this purpose make sure A) it is new and B) it is rated.

I'm guessing you *could* use a pair of ratchet straps by themselves for recovery if you really had to.

[william127]

you can just use lorry rachets but it is incredibaley slow. when my range rover was stuck over the side of a byway we used highlifts front and back to work it out and big ratchets to stop it sliping when re rigging

highlifts are king of offroad toys :)

[dxmedia]

What about the rope and wheel adaptor technique? Use the diff on the axle as a winch.

[McGuire]

 Wouldn't bother with that!

[dxmedia]

Wouldn't bother with that!

Why not, tried and tested tecnique, landrover used to sell an adaptor for it. I know which I'd prefer when stuck, engine power or arm power.

[william127]

think iv senn them advertised in magazines recentley, not keen on the idea myself, if you are by yourself, without a "spotter" think you could get in a right mess.

highlifts are still king, have used mine 3 times in the past week for lifting fence posts out the ground, without breaking sweat.

[Range Rover Blues]

Hi-Lift sell a winching adapter kit, I've got one, I've used it, it works.

[william127]

me too, what sort of chain do you use with it?first four sell one for about £40 that ill probabley get. ive been using the hook and chain around fence posts for pulling them vertically out the ground this week.

[Andrew2005]

Hi All

Very interesting read!  I have a High Lift jack, but never knew it would turn out to be so versitile.  How do you set it up for recovering a car as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Cheers

Andy

[william127]

clip one shakle on the top of the bar(non moving part) and tie with a strop  to a tree/stationary veichle. then put a shackle trough the toe of the jack and attach to the oblect to be winched withanother strop (this is the hard part in getting the strop tight enough that you dont waste 3/4s of the travel pulling it tight). then pump up the jack- i saw it demonstrated at the lrw show 8 years ago, never thought of it till 4 months ago when i needed it and it was all really simple, once youv done it once its easy,

if you rotate the top hook you can even use the jack for clamping- apareently

[Range Rover Blues]

There was an article in the GLASS magazine a year or more ago about tieing "prosic loops" and making a Hi-Lift climb alaong a rope.  A prucis loop is a self-tightening knot almost that slips in one direction and grips only when load is applied.  CLimbers also use them to get out of tanglesin their gear, by tying Prusic loops with their boot laces.

Anyhow, with the hi-lift kit you get a removable pin for the base plate, 2 choke hooks on short length so f 10mm chain and 2 adapters.  One goes over the lidfting toe, the other goes on the end of the "standard", the main upright of the jack.  You then fasten a strop to the top of the standard and tot he other end you need about 5m of 10mm chain.

Hook the chain form the toe onto the 5m of chain, taking up most os the slack, then pump the Hi-Lift to winch.  When you run out of Hi_lift you secure the second choke hook to the chain as tight as possible and revere the Hi-Lift.

As it goes down the second choke hitch takes the starin, you then run the toe back down the standard, reconect it further along the 5m chain and start again.

[Range Rover Blues]

Not very clear but here's some pictures of mine in use.

[clbarclay]

Or one of the 5 tonne ratchet straps. I double them up to make them 10 tonne SWL, and then use the ratchet to take up the slack.

NOTE: Not all of the ratchet straps available come with a label with the SWL on them, if you are going to use one for this purpose make sure A) it is new and B) it is rated.

I'm guessing you *could* use a pair of ratchet straps by themselves for recovery if you really had to.

Not rearly. The ratcheting mechanism is only effective for very short pulls and after a few inches looses force. We tried that once at home to get a G wagen onto a flat bed and even with 2 ratchet straps for a down hill pull on smooth ground it was pure masachism.

I find the ratchet straps are a good alternative to chain, being lighter and the ratchets will take up pretty much all the slack, making full use of the hilifts short lenght. I've lots track how many times I've winched with a hilift, but only once it required more than a 4ft pull and that wasn't realy necissery.

[stuvy]

I had to pull a 450 foreman quad in the back of my old work van with only 2 ratchet straps was NOT fun and hugely time consuming!!

also link for the Hi Lift tyre changer
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/tyres-removal-made-easy-73442.html

[william127]

when it comes to pulling quads the best system is very simple- a rope going through  a single pulley to the bike and tug on the free end- easy :D. i got my bike stuck in a 4 foot deep ditch  and couldnt lift it out with just me and my 14 year old cousin so went back the next morning with a highlift, pulleys, ropes and ratchets- oh and dad! but before we rigged anything complicated we set up a single pulley and pulled on it and out it came, job done.

[frosty]

   is a hi lift and winching kit the best combo for this type of hand winching? or would a jackall (or tmax) with a pair of ratchet straps be suitable? at the moment ive got a cheap farm jack that ive had for years and im very aware that its not the best bit of kit and i should really replace it..
 
  any ideas?

[Highland_Defender]

   is a hi lift and winching kit the best combo for this type of hand winching? or would a jackall (or tmax) with a pair of ratchet straps be suitable? at the moment ive got a cheap farm jack that ive had for years and im very aware that its not the best bit of kit and i should really replace it..
 
  any ideas?

You could still use a jackall or t max with winching kit. nothing wrong with the farm jack though. just not as solid as a hi lift.

[Range Rover Blues]

me too, what sort of chain do you use with it?first four sell one for about £40 that ill probabley get. ive been using the hook and chain around fence posts for pulling them vertically out the ground this week.

http://www.mud-club.com/galleries/Range-Rover-Blues/1713-Laning-with-Turtle-and-Little-Landy/

I bought some 10mm long-link chain from a lifting equipent place in Sheffield.  i did have a 'phone number but that was a few years ago.

10mm chain is probably way OTT for the 2,000kg rated pull on a hi-lift but the hooks that come with it fit 10mm and that's the size of chain in the kit.  Also make sure its' long-link.


As for Jackall, I'm not aware that they make a winching kit.