help!!! is it the fuel pump?????

[TicTac]

driving my disco home about 3 weeks ago it started loosing revs and had no power, thought i had just sucked up rubbish out the bottom of the fuel tank.  so changed the fuel filter and bled the system. went fine after that. last few mornings it been slow 2 start and i just thought it perhaps because it so cold, started it earlier 2day drove round the corner and lost all power!!!! had 2 b towed home starts ok and ticks over but soon as u try accelerating the engine starts shuddering and then dies!!!! could it b/ is it likely 2 b the fuel pump????

any advice gratefully received...........

[landroverkeith]

Sorry I cant be of any help as yet "touching every single bit of wood in the house" ive had nothing like this happen to me all i can think of is prehaps still some manky stuff in the tank from last time when u changed the filter??  :-k

what u need to do is take off that bonnet chequer bring it down to my house and let me put it on mine then u will feel sooooo much better

keith

[TicTac]

Sorry I cant be of any help as yet "touching every single bit of wood in the house" ive had nothing like this happen to me all i can think of is prehaps still some manky stuff in the tank from last time when u changed the filter??  :-k

what u need to do is take off that bonnet chequer bring it down to my house and let me put it on mine then u will feel sooooo much better

keith

changing the subject a minute, i didnt see one other disco at the donington show with chequer plate on the bonnet!!!!   am i such an oddball that i the only one who likes it?????

but if i thought for one minute letting u have my bonnet chequer wud help with my problem i wud b down urs delivering it like a shot........... not...................................

[landroverkeith]

Na def not the only one i think it looks brill  :D

try ringing that garage i sent u in pm he was real helpful and right on the doorstep at the time if u need a tow or anything gis a shout

fingers crossed its just a pump

[Andrew3012]

Sounds like a fuel issue to me but might be worth looking at the stop solenoid for contamination / proper function. there is only one electrical connection that should have 12 volts on it (ignition on) if it's not there no fuel will get through and if it's intermittant it could point to a faulty 'Spider'.

[stageonesimmo]

Easiest way to check is next time it stalls/cuts out take the fuel filter off and have a look at the level of fuel in it - if its not brim full you have a pump/air problem.

Look at all of the usual suspects such as the sedimenter, pick-up and lift pump, but dont forget the unions on the pipes to the lift pump - I've had 2 now where the brass olive had come loose on the placcy pipe due to vibration and air was getting in past it - bit of PTFE tape and bit of 'over tightening' did the trick.  To be honest though, for the cost of a lift pump, I'd just bang a new one on and hope it cures it - not Sh!tPart though as I've binned a couple of them as they were knackered fresh out of the box................

[bilge rat]

clean the sedementer iff you have one , iff its o.k i'd go for the lift pump. dont go for the cheapest one. alan.....

[muddyjames]

Easiest way to check is next time it stalls/cuts out take the fuel filter off and have a look at the level of fuel in it - if its not brim full you have a pump/air problem.

I have some air in my fuel filter (it is a clear inline jobby) and be blown if I can remove the air. even by holding it up so the air is at the top and prime the system the air still stays in there. Giving it very hard revs today sucked some out. Any tips on how to remove air?

[ben_haynes]

Sounds like a fuel issue to me but might be worth looking at the stop solenoid for contamination / proper function. there is only one electrical connection that should have 12 volts on it (ignition on) if it's not there no fuel will get through and if it's intermittant it could point to a faulty 'Spider'.

a faulty 'What'????

[ben_haynes]

Na def not the only one i think it looks brill  :D

try ringing that garage i sent u in pm he was real helpful and right on the doorstep at the time if u need a tow or anything gis a shout

fingers crossed its just a pump

lets hope it not the pump as it is £600 + VAT for it :shock:

[ben_haynes]

Easiest way to check is next time it stalls/cuts out take the fuel filter off and have a look at the level of fuel in it - if its not brim full you have a pump/air problem.

I have some air in my fuel filter (it is a clear inline jobby) and be blown if I can remove the air. even by holding it up so the air is at the top and prime the system the air still stays in there. Giving it very hard revs today sucked some out. Any tips on how to remove air?

have you bled the system at the injectors this should get the air out as they should be the highest piont of the Fuel system

[minty]

OK wots been done. 15 days ago she spit and spat their was no rev then their was she ran for 200yards and when we stopped she cut out, foot flat to floor only 3500 revs max. drive for 2miles no problems then we start it all again, so we changed the fuel filter (halfords). ran perfect for 2 days no problems then it started again, so we replaced the lift pump ran perfect again for 2weeks, had a good run up-to j23a on sunday to landy show no problems at all, then to it starts again??? :?

now thinking out load. if it was to be the fuel pump would doing all this first made the difference it did or could i be missing something? only thing we did not do was replace the olives when doing the lift pump... we didn't have any at the time  :doh: but some on order now.

[minty]

Ben as i understand it you had a good look round it today so i am intrusted to you, I've had several suggestions some made sense some i didn't  understand.
 the bit about £1100.00 to sort it i did (she can walk for a couple of months) top end and £800.00 - £900.00 for a Donner engine and gear box.... think i might get her a fiat pander either way its going to be a dear job

[ben_haynes]

yes mate i had a quick look 2day i can definatly say it not the Supply 2 the stop solenoid, as i disconnect it she cuts out every time,
i bled the system through and it improved but after a couple of revs it drops and splutters and cuts out, i am waiting for a Friend who is a Diesel Specialist to get back to me about it but i suspect pump

but while i wait for him, can anyone tell if a 300TDi Pump will fit, (Rocky Land say No) but i had a look at the one i got sat in the workshop and it looks identical except for a Switch / Sensor for the Throttle Position (something to do with the ECU anyway)

i dont think this has a Sedimenter as it has been converted from MPi to 200TDi.

[ben_haynes]

Ben as i understand it you had a good look round it today so i am intrusted to you, I've had several suggestions some made sense some i didn't  understand.
 the bit about £1100.00 to sort it i did (she can walk for a couple of months) top end and £800.00 - £900.00 for a Donner engine and gear box.... think i might get her a fiat pander either way its going to be a dear job

what does the £1100 include???

[minty]

fuel pump and timeing belt inc. at rockingham

[ben_haynes]

fuel pump and timeing belt inc. at rockingham

is that fitted? or just for parts?

[minty]

am i missing something.....?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-200-300TDI-FUEL-PUMP-DISCOVERY-RANGEROVER_W0QQitemZ4632693573QQihZ020QQcategoryZ31348QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


ben thats fitted job done.

gone for food back soon

[ben_haynes]

am i missing something.....?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-200-300TDI-FUEL-PUMP-DISCOVERY-RANGEROVER_W0QQitemZ4632693573QQihZ020QQcategoryZ31348QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


fitted job done

it is an in tank pump (not the timing pump), i dont think this is the fault it is a low pressure pump to send fuel down the vehicle to the manual lift pump (y 3 fuel pumps for a vehicle? i dont no)

this is what rocky want £600 for

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Discovery-200-TDi-Diesel-Injection-Pump_W0QQitemZ310024540756QQihZ021QQcategoryZ31348QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-200-TDI-INJECTION-PUMP_W0QQitemZ250216688795QQihZ015QQcategoryZ31348QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[johnpirate]

My old 200Tdi did this when I first got it went through the cheap stuff.It was a mixture of things including the return pipes on the injectors.Then after replacing the fuel pipe we spotted a crack in the return pipe at the top of the sender unit.It cost me £70plus as there is no fuel pump in there its the same casing as the one with pump in.But thats it.

[Ja1983]

clogged fuel lines/cack in tank... when you change something, it gets dis-lodged, then gets sucked in again....?

[bilge rat]

but while i wait for him, can anyone tell if a 300TDi Pump will fit, (Rocky Land say No) but i had a look at the one i got sat in the workshop and it looks identical except for a Switch / Sensor for the Throttle Position (something to do with the ECU anyway)


[/quote]

the part no's are different on the 200 to 300 pump , there is more difference than just the sensor (thats for the egr) the shaft is different too.  (new lift pump)  wasnt a britpart one was it  ?. ....

[stageonesimmo]

Mmmmm, for it to run well immediately after a filter replacement (this includes the bleeding of its life as well) then to cut out days later says to me you are getting air in somewhere before the injection pump as every time its bled it works fine for a time then stops. Whats happening is the fuel is getting aerated in the lines, (as the air is sucked in through the leak in the pipe at whatever point), and this gradually fills the filter with foam which the lift pump passes to the injection pump and it cant run on it any longer so it cuts out.

these are the exact same symptoms I had on a mates 200TDi and it turned out to be a combination of a loose lift-pump olive and a knackered lift pump diaphragm.  I had to use 3 pumps in total to fix it as 2 britpart ones had duff diaphragms out of the box and were useless - hence my Sh!tPart comment earlier.

Have you tried running it on a jerry can fed directly to the  FIP to see if it cures it, or placing a bit of clear pipe between the filter and lift-pump to check for air bubbles?....  There are loads of things to do before going to the FIP - I really don't think it's that!

[ben_haynes]

the part no's are different on the 200 to 300 pump , there is more difference than just the sensor (thats for the egr) the shaft is different too.  (new lift pump)  wasnt a britpart one was it  ?. ....

no it was the genuine original Bosch (with landrover Part no on it) pump (never replaced - one owner from new) i was only wondering because some one mentioned that the early 300 had the same pump as 200,
the 300 was a M / N reg which was the early ones (cant remember exactly as i only have a Shot engine sat in the corner of the workshop)

sure it is throttle position not EGR as it is an electrical connector fixed to the top of the throttle arm

[stageonesimmo]

The throttle sensor is FOR the EGR, (via the ECU) - tells it when you have your foot off the loud pedal.......

[ben_haynes]

Mmmmm, for it to run well immediately after a filter replacement (this includes the bleeding of its life as well) then to cut out days later says to me you are getting air in somewhere before the injection pump as every time its bled it works fine for a time then stops. Whats happening is the fuel is getting aerated in the lines, (as the air is sucked in through the leak in the pipe at whatever point), and this gradually fills the filter with foam which the lift pump passes to the injection pump and it cant run on it any longer so it cuts out.

these are the exact same symptoms I had on a mates 200TDi and it turned out to be a combination of a loose lift-pump olive and a knackered lift pump diaphragm.  I had to use 3 pumps in total to fix it as 2 britpart ones had duff diaphragms out of the box and were useless - hence my Sh!tPart comment earlier.

Have you tried running it on a jerry can fed directly to the  FIP to see if it cures it, or placing a bit of clear pipe between the filter and lift-pump to check for air bubbles?....  There are loads of things to do before going to the FIP - I really don't think it's that!

i will have to have a longer more in depth look at it, if its not the FIP what else?? will look for the sedimenter (but dont think it has one) changed lift pump, replaced fuel filter, bled system at injectors every time, whilst cranking the engine, and also bled it while the engine was running rough to get it runninr right

[minty]

can we get back to the question in hand and leave my old woman out of the picture...duff diaphragm indeed? is this why i got x2 kids :doh:

[ben_haynes]

 :lol: :lol: [-X [-X

[TicTac]

can we get back to the question in hand and leave my old woman out of the picture...duff diaphragm indeed? is this why i got x2 kids :doh:

minty needs sumone 2 explain 2 him about the birds and bees me thinks, cause he rubbish at cars..........................

[TicTac]

Ben as i understand it you had a good look round it today so i am intrusted to you, I've had several suggestions some made sense some i didn't  understand.
 the bit about £1100.00 to sort it i did (she can walk for a couple of months) top end and £800.00 - £900.00 for a Donner engine and gear box.... think i might get her a fiat pander either way its going to be a dear job

what does the £1100 include???

hell will freeze over b4 i drive a fiat panda............................besides y shud i wen i know where there is a tidy 90 td5